PN1

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Mr McDonald, you appear for Clubs Australia Industrial?

PN2

MR T McDONALD: I do, your Honour, and I have with me, Mr Mossman.

PN3

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Right. Mr Cooper, you appear for what, the Club Managers' Association, is it?

PN4

MR P COOPER: That's correct, your Honour.

PN5

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Mr Arndt, you appear for Australian Business Industrial, and the New South Wales Business Chamber?

PN6

MR J ARNDT: That's correct, your Honour.

PN7

THE VICE PRESIDENT: And Ms Coonan, you appear for RSL Victoria?

PN8

MS R COONAN: That's right.

PN9

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Right. The purpose of this afternoon's directions hearing is to follow up to a matter that came up in the directions hearing for the four year review concerning public holiday provisions, last Friday. In those proceedings Mr McDonald, who appeared for Clubs Australia Industrial, wished to have directions made to facilitate the hearing of the claim which was articulated in the outline of submissions, which had been filed on 13 March. I didn't deal with that matter to finality because United Voice was not present, but the general intention is to set down the whole public holidays matter for dates to be set in July or August this year. So is there anything you want to add to anything of that, Mr McDonald?

PN10

MR McDONALD: Only this, your Honour. That it seems there perhaps be a misapprehension, maybe I wasn't here in – what I put – what we're seeking to advance is the exact claim that was filed before the Commission in February of 2015 and which was based on the website at that time. There's no fresh claims. They're exactly the same as those that were put at that time.

PN11

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, it's a fresh claim in the sense that your client's failure to comply with any of the directions probably lent into the assumption that the claim had been abandoned, but any event, yes. And I understand that you can confirm that you said you'd be in a position to file evidence and if any further submissions, within two weeks from last Friday?

PN12

MR McDONALD: Yes, your Honour.

PN13

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, all right. So Mr Bull(?), do you want to respond to any of that?

PN14

MR BULL: Sorry, I just put my ears on because it stops the feedback. It would be useful to have also draft determinations in relation to the claim filed, in two weeks.

PN15

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, all right. The standard directions involve, to be clear, the draft determination, evidence and submissions.

PN16

MR BULL: We'd need probably – it's a matter which we almost certainly are not going to be receptive to, and in terms of putting on submissions and evidence we'd need about eight weeks, so we probably can fit within the timetable proposed, having a hearing in July and August.

PN17

THE VICE PRESIDENT: If I just explore this, so taking into account the Easter break, the direction would be for Clubs Australia Industrial to file its material on 18 April, Mr McDonald, is that correct?

PN18

MR McDONALD: Yes, your Honour.

PN19

THE VICE PRESIDENT: And then if we're looking at July or August, that means eight weeks can fairly easily be accommodated, Mr Bull.

PN20

MR BULL: Look, we should be able to find whatever we can find, within that time frame.

PN21

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Now Mr McDonald, how much material do you anticipate filing, particularly in terms of witnesses, so that I can estimate the length of the hearing?

PN22

MR McDONALD: I think in our original scoping document we were suggesting around about five, and we'd anticipate that that would still be the case.

PN23

THE VICE PRESIDENT: And what would they be giving evidence about? That is - - -

PN24

MR McDONALD: They'd be giving evidence mainly about the costs associated with the operation of the additional day off provision.

PN25

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN26

MR McDONALD: The cost generally in relation to public holidays. That would be the main thrust, without necessarily seeking to limit it, but they wouldn't be dealing with the sort of penalty rates issue which are, of course, part of the other proceedings.

PN27

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, all right. Yes, and no doubt your answer will be that you can't answer it, but Mr Bull, could you give any idea as to what United Voice's case might look like?

PN28

MR BULL: I can't imagine it would look particularly significant. We would need to look at their evidence but it's – but you know, I don't know whether lay witnesses are going to take this matter much further so I can't imagine we'd have a lot of witnesses. I would need to think about what they serve try and constructively relate to it - - -

PN29

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, all right.

PN30

MR BULL: For want of a better term but no, there's not going to be – we wouldn't have a big evidential case. It almost certainly, and I'm not saying this is exactly what we'll do, but it'll be something where we'll put in a lengthy submission.

PN31

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you. All right, so the - - -

PN32

MR BULL: Your Honour, if I may, it probably that the areas we'd be addressing by way of evidence would be those set out at paragraph 4 of our submissions which is headed, "Public holiday at clubs."

PN33

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, all right. Okay. So the directions would be, Mr McDonald, you file on 18 April. United Voice and any other person responding would file on 13 June, and then I give you a further two weeks, Mr McDonald, that's to 27 June, to put on reply material.

PN34

MR McDONALD: May it please.

PN35

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right, does any other party wish to say anything about this aspect of the matter?

PN36

MR McDONALD: No.

PN37

MR COOPER: No thank you, your Honour. Club Managers here.

PN38

MR ARNDT: No, your Honour, thank you, (indistinct).

PN39

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Ms Coonan?

PN40

MR BULL: I might indicate one matter.

PN41

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN42

MR BULL: There was some correspondence forwarded to your chambers last night. There were two emails. There was one where you were provided with a courtesy copy, which was a lengthy one, which related to another proceeding. I'm happy to withdraw that in relation to this matter. And the other email can remain.

PN43

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, it was all a good read but I'm not particularly fussed about it, Mr Bull.

PN44

MR BULL: Well, fair enough.

PN45

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. The parties can expect, unless there's anything further anyone wishes to raise, that I will make directions along the lines indicated and that the parties will receive a listing, listing details in July August. I should add, Mr Bull, other parties indicated various unavailabilities in July or August. Does United Voice have any particular unavailable dates?

PN46

MR BULL: It will probably be me.

PN47

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN48

MR BULL: I don't have – apart from – I'm just looking at – no, I'm actually – the other staff member is actually on leave, so I'm going to have to be here, so I can't say I might be away.

PN49

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, you're just about to have a holiday, so you won't need another one.

PN50

MR BULL: Well, look, I like to have two a year if I can.

PN51

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right.

PN52

MR BULL: But no, look, I've got nothing which is – I'm looking at my diary and it should be fine.

PN53

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right.

PN54

MR BULL: All right?

PN55

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you.

PN56

MR BULL: Okay, thanks.

PN57

THE VICE PRESIDENT: So is there anything else anyone wishes to add?

PN58

SPEAKER: No, thank you.

PN59

MS COONAN: No, thank you, your Honour.

PN60

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right, well, thank - - -

PN61

SPEAKER: No, thank you, your Honour.

PN62

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I thank everyone for their attendance at short notice and you can anticipate that the directions and notice of listing will be issued before the end of the week.

PN63

SPEAKER: Thank you.

PN64

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you.

PN65

MS COONAN: Thank you, your Honour.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [5.08 PM]