PN1

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Mr Ushakoff, are you there?

PN2

MR M USHAKOFF: I am, Vice President. Yes, I am.

PN3

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you. Mr Cooper, you appear for the Club Managers Association?

PN4

MR P COOPER: Yes, Vice President.

PN5

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Ms Crowe, you appear for the Professional Golfers Association?

PN6

MS V CROWE: Yes, I am, your Honour.

PN7

THE VICE PRESIDENT: And, Mr Bull, you appear for the United Worker's Union?

PN8

MR S BULL: That's correct.

PN9

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. There are a range of matters which are required to be determined by a Full Bench in relation to this award, and there are a number of submissions that have been filed with respect to each matter. Starting with you, Mr Ushakoff, are there any further steps that need to be filed, from your perspective, in terms of filing further material?

PN10

MR USHAKOFF: In terms of filing further submissions in terms of substantive changes to the award, I believe we have finalised that process.

PN11

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you. Does anyone take a different view: Mr Cooper, Mr Crowe and Mr Bull?

PN12

MR BULL: No. We've got a very limited claim, which is the tool allowance. I may just make a more sophisticated submission, but no, we weren't intending on filing anything more. And the submission in relation to the tool allowance is just essentially suggesting that this award should reflect what occurred in the other two hospitality awards.

PN13

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Mr Cooper. Ms Crowe?

PN14

MR COOPER: Just clarification from what Mikhail just said from Clubs Australia Industrial. Are they intending to file more material, or just what's before the Commission at the moment?

PN15

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I understood him to say that they've filed all the submissions they want to make. Is that right, Mr Ushakoff?

PN16

MR USHAKOFF: In terms of proposed substantive changes to the award, Vice President, yes. But we would like to make further submissions in terms of providing further evidence for the basis for those proposed changes, but we don't propose to introduce any new proposals in that regard.

PN17

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I think you've misunderstood my question, so we will start again. What further material needs to be provided from your perspective in order for these matters to be determined?

PN18

MR USHAKOFF: Vice President, I believe some evidence from Clubs, particularly in relation to the provisions dealing with club managers. We estimate that some witness statements may be required in that regard, and potentially some limited written submission, but nothing extensive.

PN19

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. How long do you think you would need to do that?

PN20

MR USHAKOFF: We could have that process finalised and submitted, in terms of evidence, within four weeks, if that pleases the Commission.

PN21

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. Just so we're all clear, does any other party wish to file any further submissions or evidence in respect of the matters they themselves have raised?

PN22

MR COOPER: Your Honour, Peter Cooper here. This matter is being pressed by Clubs Australia Industrial. Probably we will have to provide evidence in response to their claim, but ‑ ‑ ‑

PN23

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I was going to come to that, Mr Cooper.

PN24

MR COOPER: Okay. Sorry.

PN25

THE VICE PRESIDENT: The first thing I want is whether, in respect of each party's own claims, and I see that CMA has got some, whether there's any material any party wishes to file in addition in respect to their own claims.

PN26

MR COOPER: It would be limited from the CMA's point of view, just expanding upon the three matters we've raised.

PN27

THE VICE PRESIDENT: What do you actually want to do? Do you want to file further written submission?

PN28

MR COOPER: Yes. A brief submission, yes.

PN29

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. Is four weeks sufficient to do that?

PN30

MR COOPER: Yes, it is, your Honour. Thank you.

PN31

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right.

PN32

MR USHAKOFF: Your Honour - sorry.

PN33

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Ms Crowe for the PGA?

PN34

MS CROWE: Your Honour, we're happy with what we've filed so far, thank you. There won't be anything further.

PN35

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Okay. And, Mr Bull, I understood you to say that you didn't want to file anything further with respect to the ‑ ‑ ‑

PN36

MR BULL: In relation to the only claim we have, which is this tool allowance claim, I was going to frankly just put what we've said in a slightly more formal, you know, more complete document. One matter I was going to raise is that I understand we're also dealing today with the work value claim in relation to the casual fitness instructors.

PN37

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, right.

PN38

MR BULL: I don't view that as - it's not our claim, frankly. We essentially think the status quo should remain. So in a sense we're not an applicant, we're defending the status quo. Is Clubs saying that they don't want to file any material? Because submissions have been made in relation to this, are they saying they're going to present no evidence, or further evidence in relation to this matter?

PN39

THE VICE PRESIDENT: The fitness instructors matter, you mean?

PN40

MR BULL: Yes.

PN41

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Mr Ushakoff, do you wish to file any more material in relation to the fitness instructors matter?

PN42

MR USHAKOFF: Vice President, we intend, along with making submissions around the club manager provisions, to make brief submissions in relation to the casual fitness instructor issue.

PN43

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Okay. It seems to me that the position is with respect to the various matters, that there will be some further material filed, particularly by the Clubs Australia Industrial. So how long would the parties need to reply to that? A further four weeks would be sufficient?

PN44

MR COOPER: I think that would be appropriate for us.

PN45

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Does anyone else take a different view?

PN46

MR BULL: No.

PN47

THE VICE PRESIDENT: In terms of a hearing - perhaps I will start with PGA. I think the PGA is happy to have its matters determined on the papers. Is that right, Ms Crowe?

PN48

MS CROWE: That's correct, your Honour, yes.

PN49

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Does any party consider that any hearing is needed for the PGA matters?

PN50

MR COOPER: No, your Honour.

PN51

MR BULL: No.

PN52

MR USHAKOFF: No, Vice President, considering that it appears that the appropriate value for that work has been determined in other modern awards. We do not oppose that being heard on the papers.

PN53

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. In respect to the other matters, do I assume the parties want a hearing?

PN54

MR USHAKOFF: Yes, Vice President.

PN55

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. How long might that hearing take?

PN56

MR USHAKOFF: I would imagine that it would potentially take two to three days, Vice President.

PN57

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. Okay. Does anyone else have a different view?

PN58

MR COOPER: We don't have a claim. We're only going to be meeting claims by Clubs Australia, so basically two or three days. It may take two or three days.

PN59

MR BULL: Yes.

PN60

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Okay. We will try to find some hearing dates for the Full Bench after a program involving four weeks and four weeks has expired. That will take us into early August, I think. Early August, I suspect. Yes, all right. Okay. Is there anything else any party wishes to raise?

PN61

MR BULL: No, thank you, your Honour.

PN62

MR COOPER: No, your Honour.

PN63

MR USHAKOFF: Nothing further, Vice President.

PN64

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. The parties can expect to receive written directions later in the day, and a notice of listing for a hearing based on an estimate of two to three days. If there's nothing further, I will now adjourn.

PN65

MR USHAKOFF: Thank you.

PN66

MR COOPER: Thank you.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [10.08 AM]