PN529

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you, Mr McCarthy. We will call your next witness.

PN530

MR McCARTHY: The ANF calls Felicity Ball.

PN531

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Is there somebody to swear in the witness in Brisbane? There is.

PN532

THE ASSOCIATE: Please state your full name and address.

PN533

MS BALL: Felicity Clare Ball, (address supplied).

<FELICITY CLARE BALL, AFFIRMED [9.34 AM]

EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR MCCARTHY [9.34 AM]

PN534

MR McCARTHY: Hello Felicity, this is Andrew McCarthy from the ANF?‑‑‑Hello.

PN535

Can you hear me okay?‑‑‑Yes, I can. Hello.

PN536

Felicity, you've made a statement for the purposes of the award review proceedings dated 27 February 2017. Do you have a copy of that with you?‑‑‑I do.

PN537

Are the contents of that statement true and correct?‑‑‑Yes.

PN538

Are there any additions or amendments you wish to make to that statement?‑‑‑I did make copies on mine. No amendments, no additions, but yes, I did make note of a few things. Is that okay?

PN539

I tender that statement, your Honour.

PN540

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: ANMF7.

EXHIBIT #ANMF7 WITNESS STATEMENT OF FELICITY BALL DATED 27/02/2017

*** FELICITY CLARE BALL XN MR MCCARTHY

PN541

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: There was a separate document sent. Is that ‑ ‑ ‑

PN542

SPEAKER: Blue Care is tendering that.

PN543

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Blue Care is tendering that too, is it? Yes, okay. Yes, Ms Brattey.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS BRATTEY [9.36 AM]

PN544

MS BRATTEY: Good morning, Ms Ball. My name is Ms Brattey and I act for Blue Care in this matter, and I'm going to ask you some questions about your statement this morning?‑‑‑Yes.

PN545

You no longer work for Blue Care. Is that correct?‑‑‑That's correct.

PN546

And at the time you gave this statement you state that you worked for Blue Care from March 2003 to May 2016 as a registered nurse?‑‑‑(No audible reply)

PN547

Which level of registered nurse were you employed as?‑‑‑I was a registered nurse; and then from 2009 I was a clinical nurse.

PN548

A clinical nurse, okay. And you state in your statement you were a clinical nurse working in the community?‑‑‑Yes.

PN549

Working in the community, that means that you had no fixed residence that you went to every day?‑‑‑No.

PN550

At that time in 2016 what area were you covering?‑‑‑What area? I was actually covering quite a large area, because being the clinical nurse, I overlooked a lot of the other staff. So from Birkdale to Redland Bay, Capalaba, Cleveland, yes, all over the Redlands. They actually have a whole area.

PN551

What was your shift pattern at that time?‑‑‑Our normal shift was 7.00 to 3.30 Monday to Friday; we did work weekends and public holidays that was shared around; and also the on-call weekend.

*** FELICITY CLARE BALL XXN MS BRATTEY

PN552

At that time you worked for Blue Care you would be covered by Blue Care/Wesley Mission Brisbane Nurses Employment enterprise agreement?‑‑‑Definitely.

PN553

Are you familiar with the terms of that agreement?‑‑‑Yes, I am.

PN554

Paragraph 4 of your statement, you state that in addition to your 30 hours per week, on average once a fortnight you were rostered to be on call both Saturdays and Sundays from 6.00 to 7.00 in the evening?‑‑‑Yes, that's correct.

PN555

Could I show you a copy of an individual report which has been tendered by Blue Care in response to your statement?‑‑‑I have that.

PN556

You have that?‑‑‑Yes.

PN557

You've seen a copy of that?‑‑‑Yes, I have seen that. It has only got Saturdays, no Sundays; and no public holidays.

PN558

From that, is it ‑ ‑ ‑

PN559

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Ms Brattey, just to interrupt, that hasn't actually been tendered yet. You just said it has been tendered.

PN560

MS BRATTEY: It was part of Maria McLaughlin's statement yesterday, your Honour.

PN561

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Yes, but I think it's very confusing, it's in another statement, when you want to put this to the witness as her actual on-call.

PN562

MS BRATTEY: I see. We would like to tender it again, then, this morning, your Honour.

PN563

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: I think it should be identified, yes.

PN564

MS BRATTEY: Would you ‑ ‑ ‑

*** FELICITY CLARE BALL XXN MS BRATTEY

PN565

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Yes, I would like you to tender it as a separate document so for the record it is clear what we're dealing with. I think that is Blue Care 1. BC1.

PN566

MS BRATTEY: You said it doesn't include any Sundays or public holidays. The evidence of Maria McLaughlin yesterday, which I have to put to you, was this is a field report of all the on-call that you worked at the time that you were at Blue Care and doesn't show any Sundays because you didn't work any Sundays during that period?‑‑‑Personally, I mean, I haven't worked for Blue Care since 6 May last year and I don't have access to any rosters or anything, but from other nurses that I've spoken to that still work for Blue Care and worked in the community, when we did on-call we did on-call for Saturday and Sunday. So that's why I find it hard that only Saturdays are coming up when we actually did both days. And if there was a public holiday they would try and even it out and another person would do the public holiday. So I'm only going by memory. I don't have any hard evidence other than what you've given me, but, you know, I can guarantee you, like, the nurses, when they're on call, they do both Saturday and Sunday. That was on the weekends, yes.

PN567

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: While there's a break I will just change that exhibit number to exhibit 2 so it follows Ms McLaughlin's statement, rather than BC1.

EXHIBIT #BC2 ON-CALL FIELD REPORT FROM BLUE CARE

PN568

MS BRATTEY: At paragraph 6 of your statement, at the time you were on call you say you text on and off with four carers and two nurses. "They also reported to me when they completed the shifts"?‑‑‑Yes, that's correct. They would text when they commenced the shift, and I would respond back to them to let them know that I got their text. And if anybody did not text when they were to commence their shift, I would text them just to make sure that they were actually at work so that I didn't have to go in myself or call the on-call personal carer.

PN569

You state that you received roughly between two and five phone calls per shift, but some weekends were quiet and you were not called ‑ ‑ ‑ ?‑‑‑At all, yes. Some weekends not at all.

*** FELICITY CLARE BALL XXN MS BRATTEY

PN570

Paragraph 12 of your statement, you state that you never received any compensation for giving telephone advice. "I was only paid the on-call allowance." Did you submit your logs that you were required to submit when you were on call?‑‑‑When I worked for Blue Care they never stipulated that you put a log book in. April last year, 2016, Blue Care took on the contract from Queensland Health for the palliative care on-call. Once that came about they actually did start the log books of calls. And even the girls for the palliative - the girls doing the on-call for palliative care put their log books in, but the girls doing the on-call on the weekends still do not submit a log book of phone calls for pay - for compensation. So that was never encouraged to staff to do.

PN571

I asked you earlier whether you were familiar with the agreement. So you would understand to get the overtime pay, logs would have to be submitted?‑‑‑Yes, exactly. Yes, totally agree with that. But as I said to you, it was not informed to us. We were not told, "When you're on call this is what you have to do: if you take phone calls you need to keep a log and you need to submit it so that you get paid for it."

PN572

You were aware of what the agreement said, so did you not raise that as an issue through your union?‑‑‑Look, not everybody knows the agreement. It's quite a large document, and I wouldn't imagine anybody would know it word for word unless somebody who actually submitted it. And unfortunately with nurses when there are out there on the road, they're doing their job; they're very passionate, love the job in the work that they're doing; and, you know, we did that. And no. Same with overtime, you know. Many a shift, many a day, you know, you do two hours' overtime or whatever; did we put in for overtime? No, we don't. So yes, so that's something that just wasn't encouraged by management. And I guess it was just - you know, the staff just didn't put it in.

PN573

So you were aware you could claim overtime, so your choice was not to - - -?‑‑‑Not for the log book, no. Not for the phone log, no.

PN574

I asked you earlier whether you're familiar with the terms - - -?‑‑‑I am familiar ‑ ‑ ‑

PN575

‑ ‑ ‑ of the enterprise agreement?‑‑‑I am familiar with the enterprise agreement. Do I know it off by heart? No, I don't.

PN576

But you were aware that to submit a claim for overtime, you're required to - - -?‑‑‑Only from Maria McLaughlin's report.

PN577

Okay?‑‑‑Okay?

*** FELICITY CLARE BALL XXN MS BRATTEY

PN578

I see?‑‑‑So the log books. And therefore, so when you said that there's a log book that you can put in, I actually called quite a number of the staff that still work for Blue Care about that log book and I said, "When did this phone log book come into - we did you start doing it?" I finished work with Blue Care May last year; the palliative care log book started April last year, and I don't think I did any on-call from April to May, when I finished. I only finished on 6 May, so yes. So this was a new trend that Blue Care are now doing.

PN579

Okay. All right. I have no further questions, your Honour. Thank you.

PN580

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Ms Ball, can I just ask you a question about your statement?‑‑‑Yes.

PN581

In paragraph 4 of your statement you say you were rostered to be on call on both Saturdays and Sundays?‑‑‑Yes.

PN582

I just want to confirm whether you actually did work Sundays on call?‑‑‑Look, I've worked with Blue Care since 2003, and when you do get rostered on call it usually was a Saturday and a Sunday. As I said, I don't have access to any rosters or anything, I've just got this that they've given us. And, you know, I can't remember what I worked in 2015 or even last year - last year? Yes, last year, sorry. But as a - it was, like, quite common for them, when you went on call, the one RN went on call for both days, and that was pretty standard practice. So if they're saying I've only worked Saturdays and that's all I've worked, I just can't see why there are no public holidays that I was on call, which during that year they share the public holidays on call throughout the RNs as well. And, you know, I find it hard to believe that no Sundays have come up at all, so I don't know why ‑ ‑ ‑

PN583

The document, exhibit 2, which has been presented to you, has you, from - in 2007 you worked on a Saturday; then the rest of it is from 2013 through to '16, it's all Saturdays?‑‑‑Yes. No. Yes, and can I tell you, I have definitely worked on call on Sundays. Definitely. So I don't know how this has come about; whether they've just put in Saturdays? You know, have they not put in Sundays; have they not put in public holiday? I do dispute that, because I definitely have been on call for Sunday.

RE-EXAMINATION BY MR MCCARTHY [9.48 AM]

*** FELICITY CLARE BALL RXN MR MCCARTHY

PN584

MR McCARTHY: Felicity, it's Mr McCarthy again. You say you were on Saturdays and Sundays. Do you recall what times you would have been rostered on call between?‑‑‑When you're on call you only get a standard payment for on-call allowance, so Saturday I can't remember exactly how much it was, but it worked out about $70 for a weekend - like, for both days. And so you were - to be available for the nursing staff and the carers to start their shifts, some of the carers started at 6 o'clock in the morning, so you were on call - I always - being quite dedicated and passionate about my work, I would always have my phone beside my bed so that when they text in or if somebody was sick, I was straight onto it. So from 6 o'clock, and then the last person would finish around about 7 o'clock at night. So you would always have to be available to make sure that they've knocked off and that they've gotten home safely.

PN585

Just one more question: do you still have some pay slips from your time at Blue Care that might show how much you had received for on-call?‑‑‑Unfortunately, no, I don't keep those things. I didn't feel the need to keep anything from Blue Care. I was quite happy to put that all behind me. But I'm sure maybe I could - I don't know whether I would be able to access any through the payroll office at Blue Care. So that, I don't know. Sorry, Andrew.

PN586

All right, that's fine.

PN587

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: That's fine. Ms Brattey, if you're going to assert that this employee only worked on a Saturday and you do have the primary documents, which are the payroll records; from my part there will be a problem without Blue Care producing the payroll records. And you should have the payroll records for that period.

PN588

MS BRATTEY: Your Honour, I don't have the payroll records with me today.

PN589

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: I understand that. But what I'm saying is you should provide the payroll records, the primary material. The witness has said that she was paid 70 bucks for the weekend, not just the Saturday, around that figure. We should get the payroll records, which is what I raised with you again yesterday. Primary material needs to be provided.

PN590

MS BRATTEY: Thank you.

PN591

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Yes, Mr McCarthy.

PN592

MR McCARTHY: I have no further questions.

PN593

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you. Anyone else need to ask ‑ ‑ ‑

PN594

MS DOUST: Your Honour.

PN595

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Yes.

*** FELICITY CLARE BALL RXN MR MCCARTHY

PN596

MS DOUST: I just had one question for the witness arising from that line of questioning. I wonder whether I might have an opportunity now?

PN597

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Yes. I was about to say "any other questions". Yes, Ms Doust.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS DOUST [9.51 AM]

PN598

MS DOUST: Ms Ball, can I just ask you about your recollection of the period between August 2007 and June 2013. If you look at the first two entries in that document?‑‑‑Yes.

PN599

I'm sorry, I should have introduced myself first. My name is Ms Doust. I appear for the HSU. I'm in Sydney. On the screen you should see me?‑‑‑Yes, I can.

PN600

Thank you. Is it your recollection that between those dates, so August 2007 and June 2013, you did no on-calls at all?‑‑‑I think between that time - I'm just trying to remember, because I know 2007, my husband worked overseas, so I requested not to be on-call because I know that I had my four small children at the time and I had no one else to look after them. But as for 2008, '09, '10, '11 and '12, I definitely worked full‑time for Blue Care, and I find it hard to believe that I wasn't on call. The only other thing that I can say is - like, I know in my statement I put, like, on an average. On an average, though, some days - some weeks - months I may have only been on call for once a month, but then you work a weekend. So even though you were on call once a month, you worked a weekend in that month. And so that's why you weren't on call, because you were actually working. So yes, I have no idea why they've got me as no on-calls, because it always was shared amongst all the registered nurses. That's quite a large amount of time not to have been on call. The girls would have - excuse me - hated me. But I do know that 2007 - and my husband was away for a good eight months, so that's the only reason why I wasn't on call on 2007.

PN601

Thank you very much.

PN602

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you. You're excused, Ms Ball?‑‑‑Thank you.

<THE WITNESS WITHDREW [9.53 AM]

*** FELICITY CLARE BALL XXN MS DOUST

PN603

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: That concludes the evidence for today, subject to material being provided, which should be done promptly. Have the parties had a discussion about the timetable?

PN604

MR McCARTHY: Yes, they have, your Honour. The parties had a discussion yesterday. Our proposed amended directions, subject to your comments, are that - so there would be separate directions made for the Nurses Award. The current (d) of amended directions would read:

PN605

Any interested party seeking a variation or variations to the Nurses Award is to file in the Commission and serve on the other parties comprehensive written submissions on which they seek to rely by 4 pm Monday, 12 February 2018.

PN606

(e) would be:

PN607

Any interested party that opposes any of the variation is sought to the Nurses Award is to file in the commission and serve on the other parties competency written submissions by 4 pm Monday, 12 March.

PN608

(f) would be deleted, which is the one referring to 13 April; and (g) would remain. It is probably unlikely that we will need oral submissions; or it could be changed to liberty to apply.

PN609

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: We will make that liberty to apply in the case of the need for oral submissions.

PN610

MR McCARTHY: Sure.

PN611

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: We will formally make those amended directions for the Nurses Award.

PN612

MR McCARTHY: Thank you, your Honour.

PN613

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you. Any other housekeeping matters before we adjourn this part of the case? Or any other matters generally? No. We will just get any material that Blue Care wishes to file should be done in the next week or so, and I will mark it so that it makes the record. I will respond with my associate, give it an identification so we can see those payslips.

PN614

If, when you receive that material, Mr McCarthy, that causes you a necessity to reopen, then we would have to accommodate that. I would not want any party to be prejudiced by this new material.

PN615

MR McCARTHY: Thank you, your Honour.

PN616

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: The commission is adjourned.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [9.55 AM]

LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs

FELICITY CLARE BALL, AFFIRMED.......................................................... PN533

EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR MCCARTHY....................................... PN533

EXHIBIT #ANMF7 WITNESS STATEMENT OF FELICITY BALL DATED 27/02/2017 PN540

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS BRATTEY.................................................. PN543

EXHIBIT #BC2 ON-CALL FIELD REPORT FROM BLUE CARE............ PN567

RE-EXAMINATION BY MR MCCARTHY.................................................... PN583

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS DOUST........................................................ PN597

THE WITNESS WITHDREW............................................................................ PN602